Forum Activity for @Jonathan Edelson

Using cacao butter as seed AND What temperature to add seed

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Above the melting point of the seed, the seed crystals will simply melt.

I have used the smaller chocovision machines, and they first melt the chocolate, and reach a temperature where all of the cocoa butter crystals melt. At this point they have you add an excess of seed 'behind the baffle', and the machine lets the temperature stop dropping. The excess remaining seed is not removed until the bowl and melt are just below working temperature. All this time the bowl is spinning, rubbing a layer of chocolate off of the seed block.

I am sure that this process path causes some of the desired seed crystals to melt, but apparently allows sufficient seed crystals to mix in to the melt for tempering. Because the bulk chocolate is used as the seed, any fully melted chocolate is simply part of your mix.

I have never tried bulk cocoa butter as a seed in the chocovision, but I expect that it would work just fine. The biggest issue is that your cocoa butter will change the composition of your chocolate (I presume that you want this, otherwise you wouldn't be using the cocoa butter in the first place), but the method of using an excess and then removing the remainder would mean that you no longer have control over exactly how much cocoa butter gets added.

I have used 'mycryo' for tempering in a chocovision. In this case I let the machine melt the chocolate, hit the temper button and let the melt cool down, and then add the mycryo after the bowl temperature hits 94F. This method has worked quite well for me.

-Jon

Using cacao butter as seed AND What temperature to add seed

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hi Forum Friends,

I have two tempering questions:

1) Is cacao butter just as effective as chocolate for seed? I have used both and I can't see a difference. But one may be better than another? The cacao butter is at room temp which is approx 74F. I grind it into shavings with a cheese grinder and add about 2% of the total mass.

2) I was reading the instruction manual online for the Revolation V I just ordered (through Clay). I noted that it said to add seed at the high point of the melting cycle, 115 F in my case. This is quite different from how I have been tempering by hand where I add the seed at 95F and then cool to 90F. After reading the instructions, I now wonder if I should add the seed at 115F and then cool to 90F and check for temper?

The way I currently temper is I have a stainless mixing bowl that I cool by having a fan blow on it to cool it. I bring the mixture up to 115F, then place the bowl in front of the fan, and let cool to 95F at which point I add seed and let cool to 90F while stirring. I get a good snap, the bars hold temper. I would like more shine to my chocolate, and I hope to get that with the Rev V.

In thanking you in advance,

Mack

updated by @Mack Ransom: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Tempered Chocolate After drying question

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I hear you, but the machine could have a miscalibrated thermometer, or something else going on. I'd still use the machine, but check the temps to be sure they are correct.

Tempered Chocolate After drying question

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Yeah it seems like the chocolate is hardening as I give it a day or two.When I temper I am using a machine so I figured the temps should be fine. At least I thought so.

Tempered Chocolate After drying question

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

It sounds like your chocolate is not tempered well. Please check your process with a thermometer with known accuracy. Take the chocolate to 115(f) let it stir there for awhile. Think of it as melting ice cubes in boiling water. Even though the water is boiling, it will take some time to melt the ice. It will take some time to melt the crystals. 5-10 mins. Take your temperature down with seed chocolate to the manufacturer's recommended temperature. It will vary based on the chocolate white, milk, dark... Let the chocolate stir at that temperature for a few minutes. - you are recreating the proper crystals and evenly distributing them.

Regarding your questions:

1. The fridge for a few minutes will be fine. - Please read about temperature shocks though.

2. The chocolate is 'dry' to start with. It is a dry liquid when melted. Think of it like molten metal. What the chocolate is doing is crystallizing as it cools down. The lack of a crisp break is an indicator of the temper of the chocolate. Also, chocolate will continue to crystallize for 24-48 hours after dipping. Is your snap getting better after a day?

3. Re shine: Again, this is an indication of incorrect temper. there are MANY different things that will affect this. - temperature of your dipping room, how quickly the chocolate cools, temper of your chocolate, temperature of your fondant, temperature of storage, humidity, .... and the list goes on.

Hang in there! Keep at it and it will come and get easier. I'd suggest searching TheChocolateLife and ChocolateAlchemy for more help on tempering. There is a wealth of information on here.

Tempered Chocolate After drying question

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I made some candy today with a fondant center and tempered milk chocolate. Well I have a few questions about tempering chocolate and drying it. I am using a Revolation 1 to temper.

1. Is it ok to put the chocolate in the refrigerator to help the chocolate cool faster? Will that hurt the temper and final product in anyway?

2. Even though my chocolate is dry on the outside it still seems to not have that crisp break like it almost hasnt dried below the top layer. Is that possible?

3. Even after the chocolate feels dry to the touch is does not shine. It has a look as if it has just started to melt. Why is that? I thought it was suppose to be shiny after tempering.

Thanks in advance.

updated by @Bryan: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Truffles Cracking!

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Sounds like you have a problem with your center temperature, I agree with what Jonathan recommended.

Truffles Cracking!

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Try letting your ganache sit at in the molds are room temperature for 4-12 hours ('overnight') prior to chilling.

I find that the ganache needs to 'set up' and this happens while warm.

-Jon

Truffles Cracking!

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

So I've read just about every internet site that I can, and I've tried just about everything, but my truffles just keep cracking. My method: My ganache is 12 oz. of chocolate to 1 cup of cream, and I really like the texture. I then use silicon molds to shape and portion the ganache balls. I freeze the molds with the ganache, then take the ganache balls out and let them rest in the refrigerator for at least 24 hours. Sometime in this time I roll them quickly by hand to eliminate the flat bottom. I then take them out of the refrigerator and let them sit at room temperature for at least 4 hours, then I dip them in chocolate tempered with a Rev. x3210 machine by chocovision. When I dip them, almost every truffle cracks. I have tried first hand-rolling the truffles with a small amount of tempered chocolate, then dipping them. They still cracked. Many even crack when double dipped! Any ideas/help?

Thanks!

updated by @Trula R: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Airbrush

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Hi Omar,

If a thinner viscosity then the KREBS oilSPRAY will be better than the multiSPRAY as you will get minimal over spray. You might want to try the R8 nozzle also. Off course, there is no heating on the oilSPRAY gun.

KREBS Guns

Airbrush

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

If I needed a food gun to just spray coloured cocoa butter (without chocolate)on molds, would the oilSPRAY (LM2) work for this purpose?

Thanks,

Omar

Airbrush

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Generally, the larger the nozzle number, the wider the pattern. But nozzle hole size can also be matched the the viscosity (thickness) of your materials being sprayed. Thicker viscosity will need larger nozzles.

In general, if you are working with 50% cocoa butter 50% chocolate mix at 29C-34C using a standard compressor on half power, then a medium nozzle should give you a nice mix of fine and wide.

Happy spraying.

Airbrush

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Hi all,I'm trying to buy airbrush to spray cocoa butter into molds.When I looked on line I found the airbrush come with different noodles nozzle from 2mm 5mm........Which air brush should I buy.Any advice.Thank you
updated by @Ismael Neggaz: 04/07/25 13:00:14

Chocolate Ganache question

Posted in: Chocolate Education

See I was not checking the temp of the cream when I poured it over the chocolate so I melt the chocolate at a temp that won't lose the temper then mix the cream in ?

Chocolate Ganache question

Posted in: Chocolate Education

4 to 1 ratio for dark chocolate is overkill. 2 to 1 is more realistic. Are you adding other ingredients? What is the temp of your ganache? Putting in fridge temporarily helps, but it will soften more when you bring it to room temp. Try to not get your chocolate out of temper and it will set up nicely at room temp. White chocolate is a bit trickier. 3 or 4 to 1 is normal. I start with melted white chocolate and pour the cream over it at about 115F. What is the cocoa butter content of your chocolate? It is the CB that sets the ganache.

Chocolate Ganache question

Posted in: Chocolate Education

I recently tried to make two different ganaches one with dark and one with white chocolate. I did a 4 to 1 ratio chocolate to cream into order to make the ganache stuff so I can cut it with a knife into squares and did them. My problems1. The white chocolate ganache wouldn't harden unless I put it in the fridge and when I took it out it went soft again. How do I make it stiffen at room temperature?2. I had the exact same problem with the dark chocolate but it was a tiny bit stiffer but still I had to chill it to make it stiff.The way I made these is I boiled the cream and poured it over the chocolate pieces. When melted I stirred and poured into a pan and let cool. How do I fix these problems? I want to be able to handle the ganache and work with it.
updated by @Bryan: 04/10/15 09:43:37

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Maybe you have to re-check you tempering curve, go a degree lower or higher and do temper tests all the time, it could also be your room temp as mentioned above. They look beautiful though I love the patterns bloom creates.

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks Victor!

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Refrigerator is a humid place, I think it COULD hurt (but in a totally different way*), depending on how long you leave them there but could help you test if it is indeed the hot room what is breaking the temper or is something else. Try leaving them there for just some minutes.

*Too much humidity can produce sugar bloom but it would look completely different. So as a test to see if it is indeed the room temperature, it could work.

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

If leaving the AC on is not an option for now, is it okay to put it immediately in the refrigerator? (my refrigerator is set at the highest temp 8c) Or it may harm the temper?

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I would leave the AC at least until it cristalizes, it seems way too hot for me, I work at approx 21C.

Even after that and even if you succeed in making them look OK, you will need to store them in a cooler place, AFAIK chocolate continues it's cristalizing process for days and if you leave them in a place that is too hot they could lose snap.

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

The room is pretty hot... When I temper I turn on the AC (25c) but then I let it sit for the night and the temp is 28-29c.

Can it create bloom?

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

How about your room temp? I once got bloom when chocolate didn't cristalize fast enough. (room was too hot)

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thank you Lana and everyone.

These are great tips.

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

You may have other issues, but you are not stirring enough.

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hi Ruth, your reply is empty...

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Yes the centers are at room temperature.

I stir the chocolate while I dip but notcontinually, only something like every 3-4 minutes.

Can it be the problem?

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

What is the temp of your center? That should be at room temp or it will throw your chocolate out of temper. The other thing that comes to mind is to continually stir the chocolate you are working with so the temperature is consistent throughout the mass while you are dipping.Andrea

Bloom "stripes" on dipped chocolates

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hello,

I have a frustrating problem. I temper chocolate using the cold bath method (I heat to 45c, cool to 28, then heat to 31). Then I test the temper. The test looks fine. I make the "foot" of the ganache center and it looks fine.

Then I dip the centers, and when it cools I see "stripes" of bloom on all of the chocolates.

While working I always keep the chocolate above 28c and below 32c.

What may be the problem? Any advice will be appreciated.

Image attached.

Thanks!

Or

updated by @Or M: 04/11/25 09:27:36

roll refining

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

If I had a set up to make a 75% chocolate that allowed me to roll refine a ~50:50 mixture of coarse liquor and sugar, then had a separate machine to refine the rest of the nibs to their final particle size, rheologically speaking, would it be worth it (i.e., would viscosity be noticeably reduced), compared to refining all on the machine capable of handling high fat refining, assuming they are made such that moisture levels in the finished chocolate are the same.

roll refining

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Yes.

roll refining

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Will the cocoa butter still be squeezed out if the paste (or the rollers) is at a lower temperature? My goal with a three roll mill is to control particle size (and stay within my budget), and refining on anything else would either lessen that control or exceed my budget. That, and I was hoping to avoid more hairy messes

roll refining

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

best case scenario is to mill your liquor fine enough separately that it doesn't need to go through the refiner, other than to act as a lubricant for your sugars.

you can certainly send coarse liquor + sugar through at 75% (making it 35%+ fat) - it's just gonna be a hairy mess. if that's the only option you have, however, it begins to look pretty attractive!

roll refining

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I don't have any plans for a 100% bar, but I wanted to use that as an extreme example. I typically do 75% bars, but it sounds like even at that fat % it would be a big mess. I know other companies are making 70--75% bars using a 3 roll refiner (using just nibs and sugar)---is the trick to getting that to work just mixing a sugar/liquor mix with the appropriate fat % and refining the remaining nibs in a different machine altogether before combining all in a conche?

roll refining

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

you want to feed 100% liquor through a roller mill to reduce the particle size? if that's your question, it'd work, but it'll be terribly messy. what you'll find is that, because your liquor is high in fat - the rolls will first 'press out' about 1/2 of the butter, at which point there's sufficient friction for the rolls to grasp the solids and begin to pull them through. the degree of particle size reduction you get at this stage will be different than the degree of PSR you get at the end due to the fat continuing to be expelled.

technically it'd work, but practically it'll be a messy, sloppy, uncontrolled nightmare. i'd avoid.

roll refining

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

With the fat content you mention, would it be impossible to refine a 100% (liquor only) chocolate on a 3 roll refiner, or would I just need to decrease the temperature of the paste being fed in to keep viscosity higher?

roll refining

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

to mix the liquor and sugar? the hobart will do a great job. be careful to manage your fat levels (you'll want to refine at about 20-23% fat (ish) or else it'll be too 'sloppy' and not refine well). consider putting a jacket on the bowl for temperature control (water jacketed) or heat tape so you can keep the liquor melted (but not burned...)

roll refining

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks for the feedback. I will eventually have a mill to produce liquor, so then I'd just need a big mixer to combine it with sugar. Would a large Hobart type stand mixer do the job (~50 lbs at a time) or would I just burn it out? I guess I could always mix by hand and just have one really strong forearm

roll refining

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Is it required? No. However, most set ups that have a refiner configuration do it opposite of what you suggest - i.e., there is a benefit to running it first through your pre refiner ( the one with 3 rollers), and then running it through the full 5 roll refiner. The reason is that doing so creates a more even particle size distribution, and you get less fine particles, which helps with viscosity control. your nibs won't go through a refiner very efficivly, so you'd want a hammer mill or some other way of milling the nibs into a liquor, then combine that liquor with the sugar, and THEN roll refine it.

Can you skip pre=refining altogether? absolutely. you'll just end up with lower capacity and higher viscosity

roll refining

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hello, can someone tell me if it is required to pre refine nibs and sugar prior to running through a three roll refiner (e.g., one with 6 x 12 rolls)? If so, what is the desired particle size for the paste prior to feeding the refiner?

I realize there are likely many different models with differing capabilities, so I just want to know what is most common for small-ish roll refiners, assuming I'd like my final particle size to be in the neighborhood of 25 microns.

I'm considering switching, and I have a mill to pre grind the nibs, but not the granulated sugar (crystal size is 0.3 - 0.8 mm).

Thanks

updated by @Mike3: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Valrhona education in NY

Posted in: Chocolate Education

Fine chocolate education is one of the topics often discussed here, so I would like to share a news item from Valrhona Facebook page:

"We are thrilled to announce that Valrhona is opening in September 2014 a 4th Ecole du Grand Chocolat in DUMBO, Brooklyn!"

Source: https://www.facebook.com/ValrhonaUSA?fref=nf

updated by @Piotr Krzciuk: 04/09/15 16:44:49